Curse

Hunter Sharparrow · May 17, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

The above is not a true story. In fact, it's a false retelling of a true story that has achieved the status of urban myth. Read the facts for yourself, but the gist is that the lawsuit was because the coffee was hotter than is safe for human consumption (remember: the woman in question suffered third degree burns) and the vendor (Mc Donald's, not Tim Hortons) was found to be in violation of safety guidelines. Another important fact to remember about this story was that the woman in question was almost 80.

Don't confuse two seperate situations. Where in canada are you from? It happened to a local in Nova Scotia and was aired on the local news channel (ATV) more specifically Live at 5. I didn't hear it from a friend who heard from whoever, I saw it for myself on the news.

Quote:

The main reason I don't support earning access through titles or completed missions/quests is because they have nothing to do with alliances or guilds, which is what I think elite missions should aimed at. Working together with your guild/alliance to earn access is what elite missions should promote.

Yeah and we see how well that's working out for the majority of GW players.

EDIT: Don't quote flames please. -Swampgirl

Quote:

Lol, yeah you can. Using IWAY is usually referred to as "fame farming". So yes, you can farm HoH.

IWAY. Never could understand why people had such a big problem against that. First off you need dead allies for it to work. Second, it only lasts for ten seconds and third it has a 45 second recharge. So for them to use it the team that the warrior is in must have at least one of the party memebers die. You wait it out. There is also nothing to stop both sides from using it. Also with IWAY you can't do it solo and you can't even do it in a pair. It not farming it was only called farming because people are quick to lable things without thinking.

Quote:

Many players take an extremely long time to finish the game due to lack of free time spent playing. It also usually takes time to become skillfull at anything, GW is no exception. So time definitly can influence pretty much any variable in GW.

Yes it takes time to get through the game and yes it takes time to become skillfull but there is nothing holding you back from getting that skill in time on your own time. In the current situation it is not skill or lack of that is holding people back. What is holding people back is time directly. You have to have more free time than the next person.

Quote:

Erm... You do realise how easy it is to join an Alliance that has millions of faction? Unless you're notoriously hated by all of them, you can probably accomplish it in less than 10 minutes.

Not every alliance seems to be getting the faction required. As an example is the Black Blades who from what I read on these forums demand a certain amount of faction each day from the guild or the guild is out of the alliance. So to join an alliance that constantly has access is not as easy as you make it out to be. Tell me what alliance you are in?

Quote:

Every ad I have seen states that elite missions will be accessible by the top alliances, not the general population...

Again you quoted one line that is part of a bigger picture. The ad is that the game doesn't require lots of free time and/or farming to be competitive. That the average player can be just as competitive as the devote player. In the current situation it take time to farm for the faction needed to be competitive. A complete contradiction of what they advertise to the public.

Jagflame · May 17, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Don't confuse two seperate situations. Where in canada are you from? It happened to a local in Nova Scotia and was aired on the local news channel (ATV) more specifically Live at 5. I didn't hear it from a friend who heard from whoever, I saw it for myself on the news.

He assumed it was the McDonalds case you were talking about because the McDonalds case is one of the most widely known and ridiculed cases out there.

Quote:

Yeah and we see how well that's working out for the majority of GW players.

People seem to assume that I agree with the current system, even though I have stated otherwise in probably half the posts I have made. I have said repeatedly that I think it should be earned in a way that requires the cooperation of an alliance/guild but does not give a significant advantage to larger ones versus smaller ones.

Quote:

IWAY. Never could understand why people had such a big problem against that. First off you need dead allies for it to work. Second, it only lasts for ten seconds and third it has a 45 second recharge. So for them to use it the team that the warrior is in must have at least one of the party memebers die. You wait it out. There is also nothing to stop both sides from using it. Also with IWAY you can't do it solo and you can't even do it in a pair. It not farming it was only called farming because people are quick to lable things without thinking.

I can definitly tell that you aren't a PvP player. First off, it only consists of four warriors, not eight, and they all have pets which count as allies when they die. If you didn't know that then you have no business talking about the Hall of Heroes whatsoever. But all in all, I more intended the IWAY comment as a joke than anything, but if you ask any hardcore PvP player they will say it takes no skill, just like any hardcore PvE player will say farming takes no skill.

Quote:

As an example is the Black Blades who from what I read on these forums demand a certain amount of faction each day from the guild or the guild is out of the alliance.

The Black Blades have stated numerous times that they do not require any faction farming and that most of their members don't farm. I have also proven their statement through numbers statistics. If you want to continue the argument, you should keep up with it.

Quote:

Tell me what alliance you are in?

I am in the Lords of Strife Alliance. We have less than 50k faction, because none of our members farm. I choose to stay in this alliance because I prefer the friendships to any possible mission AreaNet can come up with.

Quote:

So to join an alliance that constantly has access is not as easy as you make it out to be.

Yes it is... I already have mentioned that I see TC actively recruiting from the public...

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I did not mean it was easy for your guild to join an alliance, I meant it was easy to join one as an individual.

Quote:

The Crusaders' Alliance has not "locked" Cavalon and probably will not ever "lock" it.

I was merely saying that would happen if the person whom's post I was quoting's prediction came true.

Quote:

just out of curiosity, if they let you in along with the others what complaint do you have?

They do let me... I choose not to; I prefer the fun of working to get the position than to instantly be shot to it. The method of earning it, however, hinders me from doing such. I only want the method of earning to be changed, I do not want it to be opened freely.

Swampgirl Inez · May 17, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

I went over and deleted the last four pages' worth of inter-alliance fighting, and I don't care to go back over the other six pages. I'm leaving this thread open because it still has some valid discussion about elite missions, and I'm also tired of closing every discussion thread about elite missions because anti-alliance and pro-alliance people flood them with their flaming.

I'm being lenient this time, but be warned: any more alliance vs alliance crap posted and I will start warning and banning.

Let's keep this in mind, please.

Spazzer · May 17, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Congrats to TC for retaking Cavalon. If trends continue, this hold should be even longer.

I personally hope it sends a clear message that the monopoly has been completely shattered. I have had a lot of fun trying The Deep out.

Do I believe that elite missions should be open to everyone? I personally like the current system where the best guild gets to decide what is right for the mission. It gives those of us on the sidelines someone to root for.

WasAGuest · May 17, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

The main reason I don't support earning access through titles or completed missions/quests is because they have nothing to do with alliances or guilds, which is what I think elite missions should aimed at. Working together with your guild/alliance to earn access is what elite missions should promote.

I'm very confused at what you mean here. Let me explain why and maybe I can get on the same page with you.

You don't want PvE questing or titles to earn you access. The Shiro example doesn't really work cause, it is supported just through game play - you quest, do missions and suddenly (very quickly) are facing Shiro. Opening up the Elite missions after Shiro is dead would also fit within the game mechanic.

Are you wanting something more repeatable to gain access? Meaning, do something and you have access for X hours/days? Access gained for a one time trip?

Before this gets expanded on; look at the side effects of that.

One time access: Casual players work to get there, wipe that's it. No way to practice and get better without going through the "blah" again.
Hourly access: Casual players do the "blah" and now are out of time and don't get to enter. Real life you know... darn it.
Daily access: Stays the same Hourly access. Not everyone can play all day, so they log in, do the "blah" and now are out of time.

Permanent Unlocking is the only fair way to really implement it. Is it fair to the alliance that controls the city? Probably not, but that's Anet's fault for making such a goofy system in the first place; and players shouldn't be "punished" for a poor design. The Favor system is poor, the faction system is just as bad if not worse.

If the alliance holders (farmers extreme - said with respect... that's a lot of time farming to hold those cities these days) are crying* about losing the elite missions as a reward, perhaps Anet should step up and design a better reward system rather than one that restricts play for others. They are a smart bunch, they can do it.

*Crying = meant as out crying or voicing out. Some people are so sensitive these days, just got to cover myself.

As a final thought: Do people want the drops, challenge, or the friend/group challange of the area? Each person will have their own reasons for entering or wanting to enter these missions. It shouldn't matter to anyone what their reasons are. I personally want the friend/group challenge. Should anyone but me care? Can't see why they would, I certainly don't care why anyone else wants access. I just care that we don't have access freely. "Freely" being when I want in, I walk in and have fun.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 17, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Permanent Unlocking is the only fair way to really implement it. Is it fair to the alliance that controls the city? Probably not, but that's Anet's fault for making such a goofy system in the first place; and players shouldn't be "punished" for a poor design. The Favor system is poor, the faction system is just as bad if not worse.

Exactly. Well said.

Loviatar · May 17, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Exactly. Well said.

how many of you remember

REFUND POINTS?

NO FACTION AT ALL?

those were big changes to many people so why cant they rethink this whole part and do something different?

remember Gaile said A MONTH OR TWO which gives enough time for a major change not just a tweak.

lets hope folks

Sir Mad · May 17, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

If the alliance holders (farmers extreme - said with respect... that's a lot of time farming to hold those cities these days) are crying* about losing the elite missions as a reward, perhaps Anet should step up and design a better reward system rather than one that restricts play for others. They are a smart bunch, they can do it.

Actually the action of some of those alliances is what made ANET change its mind about it (and the extraordinary support they got from the audience) so...

WasAGuest · May 17, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

how many of you remember

REFUND POINTS?

NO FACTION AT ALL?

those were big changes to many people so why cant they rethink this whole part and do something different?

remember Gaile said A MONTH OR TWO which gives enough time for a major change not just a tweak.

lets hope folks

Refund points were evil. They needed destroying. Having them was like taking a step backwards (AC2 anyone?).
I don't mind the Faction so much, I do however dislike the way it is used like an alternate form of currency. When "turning" in faction, you should be rewarded for doing so. Period. You shouldn't be able to turn it in for "faction" or amber/jade. When you "turn" in faction, you should be rewarded for doing so. A better idea (in my mind anyway) is to merge the Faction Transer and Rewards NPCs. That way, when you turn in faction points, it goes to your alliance and you are rewarded with amber/jade at the same time. Would cut farming way down and benefit the alliance at the same time. It makes no since right now. A friend of Kurzick/Luxon likely doesn't have the faction based armor cause they have spent so much faction into the alliance. Should be the other way around.... that make since to anyone but me?

I too am hoping for a drastic change with the alliance system.

Swinging Fists · May 17, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

When "turning" in faction, you should be rewarded for doing so. Period. You shouldn't be able to turn it in for "faction" or amber/jade. When you "turn" in faction, you should be rewarded for doing so. A better idea (in my mind anyway) is to merge the Faction Transer and Rewards NPCs. That way, when you turn in faction points, it goes to your alliance and you are rewarded with amber/jade at the same time.

It depends on what ANet is hoping to reward by granting control of the cities. If it is sheer ability to gain faction, then fine, your method would be fine.

On the other hand, if they are trying to encourage making sacrifices on behalf of their alliances, then the current system, forcing a choice between jade/amber and giving to your guild, is the appropriate method. I think they are going for the sacrifice on behalf of the greater good of the alliance theory, so giving both would defeat that purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Would cut farming way down and benefit the alliance at the same time.

I can't say I understand why this would cut down on farming. Seems to be, both sides are racing for control, so whether they got amber / jade in addition wouldn't serve to reduce their efforts.

SirShadowrunner · May 17, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Well, I stood around in Cavalon yesterday for about 20 mins. asking to go
on the elite mission along with about a dozen other ppl, nobody from the
Alliance was there to help us.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't like to sit around, whether
trying to sell stuff, get in groups, etc.... I bought this game to play and have fun,
and it is a blast, but it has a very short and over-used story-line, so I need
something to keep myself busy, and I am not wanting to go farming yet.
So guess what I am doing, bringing another toon thru the game, probably just
like most pve ppl here, and when gets to the end what next ??????????
Yes the 12v12 is fun to, but if there is another chapter coming up in now
"5 months" by the time the rest of get access to the "elite missions" we
probably won't care anyways because we will have read some much about
them there won't be any surprises!!!!!!

Mimi Miyagi · May 17, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Somehow I get the impression that the entire scope of ANet's initial GW:F game design documents never really got realized due to their self imposed time constraints. As it stands now, Factions gives off an impression of a half-assed attempt to create a world where alliances are in eternal struggle for map control. IIRC that was the initial selling point of Factions when they initially announced it. Instead, what we have is alliances within the same faction fighting it out, instead of alliances of OPPOSING factions fighting it out.

So right now we have sides bickering amongst themselves over elite mission access, which doesn't make sense from the story's POV, and we have a Faction line on the map that hardly moves at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have control over Cavalon or HzH being fought over by the opposing factions instead? Wouldn't it be more interesting to have access to the elite missions dependent on a 8v8 or even a 12v12 battle royale of opposing factions with the "winner" determined by overall results tabulated every 30 minutes or so? Having multiple faction battles across the map to provide multiple paths to expand your side's influence?

What potentially could be an extremely cool feature of GW:F is in fact nothing but an exercise in farming/grind. I just don't think this was the original intent - and if it was, jeebus did they swing and miss on this one.

Tseng Shinra · May 17, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Somehow I get the impression that the entire scope of ANet's initial GW:F game design documents never really got realized due to their self imposed time constraints. As it stands now, Factions gives off an impression of a half-assed attempt to create a world where alliances are in eternal struggle for map control. IIRC that was the initial selling point of Factions when they initially announced it. Instead, what we have is alliances within the same faction fighting it out, instead of alliances of OPPOSING factions fighting it out.

So right now we have sides bickering amongst themselves over elite mission access, which doesn't make sense from the story's POV, and we have a Faction line on the map that hardly moves at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have control over Cavalon or HzH being fought over by the opposing factions instead? Wouldn't it be more interesting to have access to the elite missions dependent on a 8v8 or even a 12v12 battle royale of opposing factions with the "winner" determined by overall results tabulated every 30 minutes or so? Having multiple faction battles across the map to provide multiple paths to expand your side's influence?

What potentially could be an extremely cool feature of GW:F is in fact nothing but an exercise in farming/grind. I just don't think this was the original intent - and if it was, jeebus did they swing and miss on this one.

I agree with some of what you said (Faction line barely moves) and various other things. However I think the current method of whichever alliance with the most faction was implemented with the idea that faction can be earned through both PvE and PvP....it just so happens that PvE takes considerable less time to earn more faction.

If city control was soley based on GvG or some sort of PvP...you'd have EviL saying "hmm...which town do we want today?". Also youd have a lot of PvP only guilds holding towns on a PvE based map.

Mimi Miyagi · May 17, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tseng Shinra

I agree with some of what you said (Faction line barely moves) and various other things. However I think the current method of whichever alliance with the most faction was implemented with the idea that faction can be earned through both PvE and PvP....it just so happens that PvE takes considerable less time to earn more faction.

If city control was soley based on GvG or some sort of PvP...you'd have EviL saying "hmm...which town do we want today?". Also youd have a lot of PvP only guilds holding towns on a PvE based map.

You could simply restrict the battles to pve characters.

Fyre Brand · May 17, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Somehow I get the impression that the entire scope of ANet's initial GW:F game design documents never really got realized due to their self imposed time constraints. As it stands now, Factions gives off an impression of a half-assed attempt to create a world where alliances are in eternal struggle for map control. IIRC that was the initial selling point of Factions when they initially announced it. Instead, what we have is alliances within the same faction fighting it out, instead of alliances of OPPOSING factions fighting it out.

So right now we have sides bickering amongst themselves over elite mission access, which doesn't make sense from the story's POV, and we have a Faction line on the map that hardly moves at all.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have control over Cavalon or HzH being fought over by the opposing factions instead? Wouldn't it be more interesting to have access to the elite missions dependent on a 8v8 or even a 12v12 battle royale of opposing factions with the "winner" determined by overall results tabulated every 30 minutes or so? Having multiple faction battles across the map to provide multiple paths to expand your side's influence?

What potentially could be an extremely cool feature of GW:F is in fact nothing but an exercise in farming/grind. I just don't think this was the original intent - and if it was, jeebus did they swing and miss on this one.

That makes a lot more sense that the current system. The elite missions and the better drops from them should never have been linked to the alliance battles and control of the towns.

I think the elite missions should be totally separate from the alliance battles and that there should be better rewards for owning a town. After winning the award of a town you should be able to visit a rewards npc and choose a reward. This is similar to the HoH chests. You win HoH you get to open the chest; you win a town you get to visit the rewards NPC. Also while controlling the town you recieven reduced prices from the various vendors. For some vendors and low end items this could be as much as 50% less. For materials and rare materials this wouldn't be as drastic but still a lower sell price and a higher buy price. For perfect weapon crafters they could require fewer materials and charge less than they normally would.

This would give alliance holders the opportunity to gain an economic boost while still allowing the masses access to all of the content. There should still be stringent requirements for accessing the elite missions. What makes more sense here would be to require that all other Canthan missions be completed with a masters title before allowing access to these missions. They are elite missions and should be tied to missions success and proficiency not alliance battles and factions points. The rewards for alliance battles and faction points should be different.

Swinging Fists · May 17, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirShadowrunner

Well, I stood around in Cavalon yesterday for about 20 mins. asking to go
on the elite mission along with about a dozen other ppl, nobody from the
Alliance was there to help us.

If you want to go to the Deep, during TC control, if nobody is ferrying in the american districts, go to the international. The american districts offer debilitating lag, and for those in TC who try to ferry people - it literally takes 5 minutes to get to where they need to go, let alone the load time. If you can't find any ferrys, go international where the lag is much less.

As a backup, I would suggest you find a few TC members that are often on, and put them on your friends list. They can alliance chat to find you a ferry. They will find someone to get you in the Deep if you want to go.

gabrial heart · May 17, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Hi guys. A-Net (according to gaile) said they will be making the elite mission more accessible (like tombs, uw and fow). Those that haven't been to the deep will soon find it is, in fact, an elite mission "FOW on crack

" it's been called. That being said, it's not easy and not something everyone is even going to want to undertake.

The deep is an area that requires good communication, e-managment and some decent planning to be successful... Please dont insult any alliance that holds cavalon and refuses to let in outside members. We have been working diligently to allow as much openess to the deep as possible and will continue to do so until a-net changes the way to access it. Soon as the lag problem is fixed and if TC has control, rest assured that there will be alliance members ready to ferry people in.

My belief is that no one alliance, guild or member makes this game fun and challanging, so enjoy it!

gabrial heart · May 17, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

It's unfortunate that many people here don't mention the faction earning potential outside of supply quests over and over...

Personally i love the 12v12 and challenge mission for faction and they offer quite a challenge. I think initially our alliance was "farming" alot, but then most of us have switched to the challenge and 12v12 alliance battles for a change of pace, and fun!

Phoenix Denfer · May 17, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

As it stands now, Factions gives off an impression of a half-assed attempt to create a world where alliances are in eternal struggle for map control. IIRC that was the initial selling point of Factions when they initially announced it. Instead, what we have is alliances within the same faction fighting it out, instead of alliances of OPPOSING factions fighting it out.

Ty Mimi for saying this again, and I hope this is a point we keep bringing up to the developers. When they first came up with this faction idea I thought the intent was just that. Choose a side and fight for that side. All I have seen has been choose a side and fight WITHIN that side.

You are very correct, the line does NOT move, and what is the true point of picking a side? I had posted in one of these threads that there should have been an area that was sacred to both Luxon and Kurzick that would house these elite missions. As battles between Kurzick and Luxons progress, this area could have been "won" by either side opening the area's missions up to member of that faction. Just like UW and FoW.

This would give far more meaning to the idea of choosing a side. It would take pressure off of smaller alliances that prefer to stay small and work together to aid in the battle to add their points in with other alliances of that same faction to control the mission area. Total points of each faction won at the end of the day or given time period...what is it now? every 3 hours? ... would determine which side could gain entry. Even if the "currency" was still in terms of faction, let it get donated immediately to the total point count instead of up the chain. These fed ex missions could still be used to earn individual faction to buy jade and amber for armor.

I don't believe that would change drastically their current set up and would bring a positive moral boost back to the game.

My continuing 2 gold.

Kariston The Swift · May 17, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Haha I actually like that idea where Elite mission access is controlled by the line between the factions. If the Kurzicks push back the Luxons then the Kurzick elite mission is open and the Luxon one is closed and vice versa. They could also tie that in somehow with the controlling alliances and their faction gain.